U.S. Department of State
Mobile
Special Briefing on U.S. Support for the Democratic Transitions Underway in Tunisia, Egypt, and Libya
Ambassador William Taylor
Washington, DC
November 3, 2011
MS. NULAND: Good afternoon, everybody. Were delighted to have a special guest
today, Ambassador Bill Taylor, who is the Departments Special Coordinator for
Middle East Transitions, specifically Egypt, Tunisia, and Libya. Bill has
completed his first trip to the region, so we thought it would be timely for
him to give you a sense of his mission and the issue areas that he is working
in this very important region of the world.
So, Ambassador Taylor.
AMBASSADOR TAYLOR: Toria, thank you. Thank you very much
Its a pleasure to be with you. I will just have a couple of comments and look
forward to your questions.
As Toria says, Ive been appointed to a position here in the Department
its a new position. We didnt have this before. Its a recognition, its a
demonstration, of the importance that the Secretary places on success of these
transitions in the Middle East. And as Toria said, right now we are focused on
Egypt, Tunisia, and Libya.
She told me the Secretary told me that she wants someone who will be
thinking about how we can support these transitions 7 days a week, 365 days a
year. I have been doing that with a small group of staff that we have that are
focused exactly on this. This is important, we think. The Secretary has taken
this step because it matters to us if these transitions succeed. It matters for
all kinds of reasons that weve talked about, Im sure, with you over the weeks.
But this is something that is very important. Its like Toria and I started
working together 20 years ago when the former Soviet Union disappeared.
MS. NULAND: I was 10. (Laughter.)
AMBASSADOR TAYLOR: Thats right, thats right. Exactly.
And she doesnt look any different. Today she is just exactly the same.
So weve been doing but thats the kind of thing, thats the order of
magnitude, I think, that we are talking about in terms of these transitions as
well. So we want to focus attention on it. We want to focus our attention and
being sure that we can support these things in the best way we can. So what Im
to do is to coordinate the response of the United States Government, in
particular the State Department and USAID. I will be working with the
international donors as well. Ill be as Toria said, Ive spent some time in the
region last week, the week before, in Tunisia and Egypt. I will be in Libya
early next month is my current plan as soon as Ambassador Cretz says that
theyve got room for me to come out there. So I am looking forward to being very
active in this area, and I look forward to your questions.
MS. NULAND: Kim.
QUESTION: Hi. Im Kim Ghattas with the BBC. I have two questions. I was
wondering: How well do you feel you understand the region and the changes that
are underway? And my second question is: How do you think that U.S. the U.S.s
ability to help influence, shape those transitions compares to other countries
that perhaps have a lot more money that they can use? And Im thinking
particularly Gulf countries that are simply flooding some of those countries
like Egypt with a lot of money.
AMBASSADOR TAYLOR: Two good questions. I work for the
Secretary and report directly in to the Deputy Secretary, Secretary Burns, but
Im also working for the Assistant Secretary for Near East Asia, with Jeff
Feltman. In that regard, I am part of that Bureau and have the access, have the
resources, that that Bureau brings in terms of, of course, the Embassies out
there, but also the desks that are here. So I am a participant every day in all
of these kinds of activities and communications with the field.
I am in touch with all three ambassadors regularly on these things. So I
am trying to understand, in response to your first question, what they need. I
mean, thats really the question. This is going to be a demand-driven exercise
here. We are going to be providing assistance in areas that these governments
want. And so its our ambassadors and their staffs in the field who will help
identify those needs, and then I will see how we can respond. So its going to
be demanding.
And that then leads into your second question. Youre right; this is
tight time on budgets here, as we all know And when Toria and I worked together
earlier, we had a lot more money to put in to the former Soviet Union, Eastern
Europe. Todays fiscal situation is obviously different, but also these
countries need different things than others needed; that is; they need some
things that we can provide in terms of trade. If we are open to their trade, to
their products, that will be as big a boost as anything that we can provide in
terms of cash.
Now, that having been said, we recognize that there are other countries
that are eager to provide support, and we support that. We support that as long
as, again, we are encouraging and other nations are encouraging the success of
these transitions in terms of a democratic transition where people come out
with the kind of rights and expectations and dignity that the revolutions began
with. Thats the kind of support were glad to see other nations provide.
MS. NULAND: And we could also highlight the fact that you are also charged
with organizing how the U.S. work fits in with international support and
working with donors around the world.
AMBASSADOR TAYLOR: Exactly. I mentioned donor
coordination. Thats also part of my responsibilities. Exactly.
MS NULAND: Josh.
QUESTION: Thank you. So in his May 19th speech, President
Obama talked about $2 billion for Egypt and Tunisia. So is that no longer the
operative plan? Is that
AMBASSADOR TAYLOR: No, no, no. Thats definitely the
operative plan. What we have there are a couple of big pieces of this work that
were doing for Egypt and Tunisia. One is, on Egypt there are a couple pieces.
One, OPIC is about to provide loan guarantees in the range of a billion
dollars. Number two, if the Congress agrees and the Congress so far has been
interested and the Senate at least has been has put this in their bill we will
have the authority to forgive and swap the debt payments so of about a billion
dollars, another billion dollars.
So the way that will work is the Egyptians right now owe us about a
billion dollars in interest on previous loans. If the Congress agrees, both
houses of Congress agrees, then we will say to the Egyptians, dont send us that
check for a billion dollars, which is actually 300 million over three years,
keep that there, but we will agree with you we, the United States Government,
will agree with you, the Egyptian Government, on how to spend that billion
dollars in Egypt. But it wont come here. It wont come back to the Treasury.
Itll stay there and do projects that we are working on right now.
QUESTION: So thats going to be some sort of an endowment or —
AMBASSADOR TAYLOR: Not endowment; I wouldnt say
endowment, but will be an identifiable project that Egyptians can see, that
Americans see, that you will be able to go take a look at. This joint project
between Egyptians and Americans, worth about a billion dollars over three
years, will be something significant that will demonstrate to the Egyptians
that, yes, we do care if that if your transition works.
QUESTION: Just a quick follow-up. A lot of the money being spent right now
in Egypt is going to aid groups that are preparing for the election. There have
been several reports that this money is going to both what we call liberal
democracy groups and groups that are Islamist in nature. So is how do you view
the spending of U.S. taxpayer money —
AMBASSADOR TAYLOR: U.S. taxpayers money as you say,
there are a lot of different a lot of pieces of the support that weve been
giving to Egypt over years, but weve now changed it, to a large degree, based
on the events there now So over the years, we have provided a big military
portion to the Egyptians, but we also have had a large bilateral economic thing.
Since in addition to that, on top of that, we are providing support for
the preparation for their elections which begins this month. And we are
providing support not to any party. Theres no individual party out there that
we in Egypt that or in Tunisia, for that matter or in Libya that we are
supporting. We dont do party support. What we do is party training. So we
provide training for political parties to help them use polling, for example,
or help them do constituent services or preparation election preparations,
these kind of things. And we do it to whoever comes. I mean, well provide this
training and tell them where its going to happen, when, and if parties show up,
its fine. So NDI, for example, the National Democratic Institute, they have
trainings, and they will invite a range of parties, including all across, lets
just say all across the spectrum. Sometimes, Islamist parties show up;
sometimes they dont. But thats it has been provided on a nonpartisan basis, not
to individual parties.
QUESTION: Can you tell us if you have control of this money, or does it go
to the Supreme Council and theyre the one who will decide where this money goes
to? Thats my first question
And second is: There has been talk about a blogger, Alla Abd El Fattah,
who the military council has decided to jail him for 15 days because he refused
to be, in standing in front of a military court as opposed to a civilian court.
MS. NULAND: I think the blogger question is better addressed to me.
AMBASSADOR TAYLOR: Thank you, Toria. So shell do the
second question.
QUESTION: Sorry.
AMBASSADOR TAYLOR: Thank you very much. But
QUESTION: (Inaudible) support democracy in general.
AMBASSADOR TAYLOR: — so on the first question, right.
We, of course, coordinate and inform and we are working closely with all
governments around the world when we provide our assistance. We have also been
working with nongovernmental organizations. I mentioned NDI, but theres also
IRI that were working with, a whole range of nongovernmental organizations,
Egyptian nongovernmental organizations, that are there. And it does not go, in
answer to your first question, does not go to the SCAF. It absolutely does not
go to the SCAF.
Now, there I mentioned the military part. Thats a separate piece. But
youre asking me about the political support; no, it doesnt go to there.
MS. NULAND: Samir.
QUESTION: Yes. Are you doing anything specific regarding the support to the
transition in Syria?
AMBASSADOR TAYLOR: No. So far, my area of
responsibilities are Egypt, Libya, Tunisia. And so if we can hope that Syria
will begin a transition to a democratic form of government and with full
respect to human rights, minority rights, womens rights, but they havent yet.
And so until they do, theyre not in my area. I hope for the time that it will
be in my area.
MS. NULAND: Elise, and then Andy.
QUESTION: Elise Labott, CNN. Thanks for doing this. In each of the countries
that youre charged with, theres a lot of concern that this kind of next phase
of the revolution, so to speak, is going to be a lot of mess; its going to be
kind of messy. Theres going to be chaos, infighting, and violence. And Im
wondering how you balance U.S. assistance with the idea that you may not be so
pleased with the way the direction in which these countries are managing their
transition.
AMBASSADOR TAYLOR: Thank you, Elise. We hope by our
engagement that we can affect the outcomes of these things, not directly and
not interfering with the political processes there, but we think by engaging,
talking with, having discussions with all of the parties who are in the various
stages and youre absolutely right, the stages will change over time. Right now,
we are in an early stage before theyre even drafting their constitutions. Were
in the interim stage, when in the TNC stage. Its important, we think, to
demonstrate to the Tunisian people, Egyptian people, Libyan people that we are
supporting them.
And so we have done a lot of humanitarian work. Many of you may have
seen we brought some of the wounded warriors from Tripoli to Boston, to the
Spaulding Hospital in Boston, this last weekend. We are trying to demonstrate
to the people that (a) the United States is part of the solution, that the
United States supports them in their attempt to move toward a democratic,
dignified government, and what we dont want to do is wait until those
governments are in place, (a) because that may take years, and we want to and
(b) because we want to influence where they end up. And so we think that
dealing with these people, these governments, on an interim step-by-step,
phase-by-phase basis, as you say, is the important thing to do.
QUESTION: But you dont think that you youll condition your aid based on the
direction in which these countries are going. If you see that a country is kind
of moving to a more authoritarian or the kind of rule that you were talking
against in the first place, youre not going to condition your aid based on
their progress giving?
AMBASSADOR TAYLOR: Our assistance is part of our foreign
policy. This is clear. This is why I work both for the Burns and for Jeff
Feltman. Its the assistance that we provide is part of our overall strategy
toward these countries. Now, our overall strategy is clearly to support them going
in the direction that we would want them to go in, as you say. So we are
(inaudible) Now, if they are not, if they are going the wrong way, we still
engage. We have to because we want to try to bend them in the right encourage
them in the right direction. But that was that our interference is not what
were after. Were not trying to interfere.
MS. NULAND: Andy.
QUESTION: The Secretary has mentioned a couple times that she sees a sort of
a fairly narrow window here for the U.S. and other countries to influence the
process. Im wondering if you could give us a sense of your sense of the
timeline and how urgent it is to actually get things underway.
And secondly, given that our resources are limited and other countries
do have resources that they can bring to bear, what is the U.S. doing to
coordinate the various income streams and support that might happen in each of
these countries?
AMBASSADOR TAYLOR: Good. Its absolutely right that these
processes are underway right now and that we want to have an effect on them. It
is also true that in most of our assistance programs, it takes time to set up.
It takes time for example, we have to get congressional support for a couple of
these things that I mentioned. I mentioned the debt swap that we talked about.
Also there are a couple of other things like an enterprise fund that we worked
on together in Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union. That also requires
congressional support, and it takes some time to set up this enterprise fund
that will support private enterprise, private sector initiatives that take
investments in small businesses in these countries. That takes time to actually
put into place, and others are similar.
So we know that its not going to be immediate. The immediate things gets
to your second part of your question. Again, I was just in Cairo last week, and
the minister of finance made it very clear that he has a cash flow problem; he
needs immediate support. We dont have immediate support for him (a) because we
dont have a whole lot of resources in our budget. Of course, when and keep in
mind when we submitted our 2011 budget, which is the money we now have, this
was two years before the Arab Spring. So we had to find so were not full of
resources, but we are able to promise him, tell him, weve get this debt swap
coming and weve got this OPIC loan guarantee that were coming. That takes some
time.
But his immediate needs are not ones that we can address but we can help
on, and that is the IMF and the World Bank. Now, as you know, the IMF, the
World the IMF was in Egypt, and they put an offer of about $3 billion on the
table for the finance minister. The finance minister was interested. He went to
the SCAF. The SCAF said, No, thank you. The finance minister told the IMF, No,
thank you. But just last week when I was there, he told me that hes likely to
be able to accept an IMF offer this time. And the IMF, as I say, has $3 billion
on the table; the World Bank has 4; so theres 7, which is roughly the order of
magnitude that the Egyptians have been talking about to some of their other
friends in the Gulf.
And some of the other friends in the Gulf made big promises. Were going
to try to help out to ensure or try to encourage those promises to be kept.
They havent yet been, to the most to the largest degree. Some have. Theres some
money coming from the Gulf to Egypt. But thats another of our areas where we
can be of help. But the immediate cash assistance is going to come from banks
like the IMF and the World Bank.
QUESTION: Okay. And is it the U.S. does the U.S. believe that the IMF and
the World Bank are the appropriate channels for this or perhaps better channels
than individual states, say, in the Gulf just writing checks?
AMBASSADOR TAYLOR: I would it would be both. It would be both.
I mean, if I were the Egyptian minister of finance, I would be open to both.
And now, it is also true that the IMF and World Bank money, loans, come with
some policy suggestions and some policy assistance and technical assistance to
help them move in the right direction toward a more market-oriented approach.
Thats useful. Probably the checks from the Gulf dont come with that kind of
technical assistance. So again, if I were the minister of finance in Egypt or
in another place, I would be interested in both.
MS. NULAND: Said.
QUESTION: Thank you, sir. My name is Saed Erekat from Qudsdaily
newspaper. So my question to you, the status of this new team is it permanent
or will it be dissolved once the Arab Spring is over, thats when? Second, does
it have
MS. NULAND: Is your question, Said, whether Bills a permanent government
employee?
QUESTION: Im saying that the team itself, this new position, will it be
permanent? I mean, will it go on, or once it has achieved its goal it will
dissolve?
AMBASSADOR TAYLOR: Got it.
QUESTION: Second yeah. Okay. Second, does it have a focus area, like
capacity building or, lets say, rule of law or and how if it is, how is it not
conflicting with other efforts by the United Nations or other NGOs and so on?
Thank you.
MS. NULAND: Bill, maybe before you answer that it might
be helpful you talked a lot about our priorities in Egypt. Maybe this is an
opportunity to talk about our priorities in Tunisia and Libya, the main lines
that youre working on in each of those.
AMBASSADOR TAYLOR: Good idea.
QUESTION: Thank you, Victoria. Is it actually country-oriented?
AMBASSADOR TAYLOR: Okay. Is the new team permanent? The new
team is there for the duration of the transitions. If you had asked me 20 years
ago was that team permanent, I would have said same thing, and it still goes. I
mean, that team is actually still together doing assistance to the former
Soviet Union, 20 years later. So as long as we need to support these
transitions, I think we will do that. So they didnt tell me how long Im in this
job (laughter) though I will be here for a while.
MS. NULAND: Until he succeeds.
AMBASSADOR TAYLOR: Thats right. Until we get it right.
Exactly.
Now, on the focus areas its a very good question and how do we
coordinate. Theres a fellow in my office whos going out to Tripoli this
weekend, and he is going to help the UN coordinate donors and coordinate
requests from the Libyans. So he will be doing the work there that will adjust
that will match the supply of assistance that donors will like we and the
Europeans and others will be bringing to the Libyans and saying, Would you like
this kind of assistance? with the demand for this assistance.
And I mentioned before that this is going to be a demand-driven response
on our part. So if we get a request from the Libyans through the UN and through
this fellow in my office, Mark Ward, then we will be able to see how we can
respond. So far, in Libya, we have done a large humanitarian and humanitarian
support, which we can go into some detail if you want. That has been our big
area so far. But were now working on weapons: identification, security, moving
out of the country. Were talking about the MANPADS and were talking about
chemical weapons. And so those two areas have received a lot of our attention
in Libya.
In Tunisia, it was and well be supporting were working through the UN in
Libya. In Tunisia, we have supported the preparation for these elections, and
again, in close cooperation with the government there, with the temporary
government there. And as we saw this is not due to our support, because there
were a lot of others that were working with the Tunisians on election
preparation, election support, but we played a role with the Europeans. We
coordinated our work with the Europeans so that we covered part of this part of
Tunisia and they covered that part of Tunisia in terms of voter education,
those kinds of things.
So its that kind of support that we have provided to the and then, the
second part, just as a second emphasis, in addition to election support and
democracy and governance, we are helping them on the economic side. And were
also, by the way, on Tunisia, going to send back the Peace Corps. Theyre very
interested in having the Peace Corps back. So —
QUESTION: Very quick follow-up, sir.
AMBASSADOR TAYLOR: Yeah.
QUESTION: In countries where there is no Arab Spring, like Morocco, they
have upcoming election, what role do you play?
AMBASSADOR TAYLOR: Its a good question. So far, I have
my office has focused on these three. But the whole Near East Asia Bureau, Jeff
Feltmans bureau, has interest in and responsibility for others like Morocco and
Jordan, for that matter, those two, and there are programs of support for both
of those countries as well.
MS. NULAND: Lets take two more.
Lach.
QUESTION: Okay. Just your overall assessment of how committed the Egyptian
military is to pursuing the democratic transition. There are a lot of doubts, I
understand, from Egyptians.
AMBASSADOR TAYLOR: I had a long discussion with many
Egyptians while I was there, including with the SCAF. Had three major generals
sitting there on the other side of the table. They were at pains to emphasize
how eager they were not to be governing. They were they wanted to make it very
clear to this American sitting on the other side of the table that they didnt
like the governing business. And they are looking they have a well-established
timeframe. It may be a long time frame from many perspectives. But there is a
well-established timeframe that will get them out of the governing business.
What they did tell me was they are eager to handoff, and perfectly prepared and
ready to hand off the legislative authority, which they now have, as soon as
these legislative elections, these parliamentary elections, are completed in
late-March. And in early-April when the Parliament sits, the SCAF knows that
they will no longer have, an welcomes the day, when they no longer have their legislative
responsibilities.
They will maintain the executive responsibilities which, again, they
were at pains to tell me they dont like. This is not what they do. This is not
what the military is trained to do, but they will maintain that executive
authority and responsibilities through the drafting of the constitution. And
then at the end of that theres a referendum and that is followed by, in their
view, by a political campaign presidential campaign, at which time they are
looking forward to handing off, they say, their responsibilities to the newly
elected president.
Now, if your question is, do I believe all that?
QUESTION: Right. (Laughter.) Did they tell you what you want to hear?
AMBASSADOR TAYLOR: Ill tell you what. I do believe that
they are uncomfortable governing. Some would say theyre not doing a great job
of it. But I think they recognize that theyve got these problems. I mentioned
the problems of the finance minister. The finance minister went to the SCAF,
and the SCAF doesnt know a whole lot about government finance, this is not what
theyre trained to do, and so they made initial decision not to accept IMF and
World Bank support, even though the finance minister says we have a big cash
flow problem. He went back to them later, has gone back to them more recently,
and has reemphasized the problem and says, look, were not getting these checks
from the Gulf like we thought we were going to do, and we have these large
subsidies that we continue to pay, and we have people demanding pay increases
The police are the latest ones to go one strike because they want a 200 percent
pay increase. The finance minister was able to go to the SCAF and educate them,
I believe, and now he the finance minister is more optimistic that he is going
to be able to accept these loans from IMF and World Bank. So they are learning
on this job. I hope they we hope, of course, they turn it over sooner rather
than later.
And on the sooner rather than later question sorry Ill go on this one it
was interesting that there was a debate, both in the private in the, kind of,
the nongovernmental world but even within the government as to this timeline.
There are two options. One, I put it I called in series, which I just
described. In series, so they do the constitution, they do the referendum, and
then they do the presidential. Theres also in parallel version, which people
are urging them to do, which would be start the presidential campaign right
when the constitutional committee starts writing the constitution. So that
would be done in parallel.
The difference between those two scenarios is probably about a year. So
under the parallel system/regime, you could have a turnover of executive
authority from the SCAF to the newly elected president a year before the
scenario where you have it in series. I still I think that the current plan,
and certainly when you talk to the SCAF, they youre still talking the series
scenario. But there is a debate on earlier rather than later.
MS. NULAND: Last one.
QUESTION: My name is (inaudible) from the Moroccan New Agency. Are you
working with these countries on specific programs concerning the enhancement of
transparency and accountability? Otherwise, are you talking to them to so that
they constitutionalize those this transparency and accountability in their new
constitutions?
AMBASSADOR TAYLOR: We are. We are. And again on a demand
basis so we dont want to try to jam things down, but they have asked for our
support for constitutional and other governance accountability things. The
Libyans in particular been very impressed with the Libyans TNC they have said,
youve probably all seen and reported this, that they said dont give us all this
unfrozen assets right away. Give it to us, but not all at once, because we dont
have the accountability systems in place. Were not ready to be sure that this
is not ripped off and goes in somebodys pocket.
So thats a pretty mature and responsible attitude on this thing. And we
are we actually have a Treasury delegation going out to Tripoli next week, I
believe it is, to talk about this accountability and how we can help with that.
Our Treasury knows something about financial accountability and they can
respond to that request for demand. And on the transparency, in both Egypt and
Tunisia, its the same emphasis that were putting on that.
MS. NULAND: Very good. Thank you Ambassador Taylor.
AMBASSADOR TAYLOR: Thank you, Toria.
MS. NULAND: We look forward to having you as a frequent guest at the podium.
AMBASSADOR TAYLOR: Anytime.
PRN: 2011/1868
[This is a mobile copy of Special
Briefing on U.S. Support for the Democratic Transitions Underway in Tunisia,
Egypt, and Libya]
